Ep. 74 | Tax Benefits of Primary Home Ownership
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John Tripolsky:Everyone, welcome back to the Teaching Taxable podcast, episode 74 today. We are gonna talk about those tax benefits that you may or may not know about when it comes to home ownership. So get ready for this one, hang on, grab the pen, paper, notebook, whatever you like to write on, and let's get into it. But before we do that, let's take a brief moment to thank our sponsor on this episode.
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John Tripolsky:Welcome back to the show everybody. John here from the Teaching Tax Flow team. We're gonna talk about those tax benefits on homeownership. And as always, Chris Pacuro, welcome back to the party, sir. How are we doing today?
Chris Picciurro:I'm fabulous. Thank you for asking, and this is a topic that we get quite a bit, not only in our private Facebook group, but also just in the teaching taxable community. This is really interesting because it homeownership, a lot of times, represents a lot of things that are non tax related benefit. And we're gonna dive into the tax benefits of homeownership because as you know, John, tax laws are written to encourage and discourage certain behavior, and the government feels that owning a home in a high percentage of home ownership in a community is something that they want. But some of the nonfinancial benefits of homeownership is just pride of your home.
Chris Picciurro:A lot of times, it's the first big purchase, a a couple makes when they come together. A lot of times, it cements someone into a new community. So, yeah, there's there's a lot of, lot of non financial, non tax benefits to homeownership. And I think that, I don't know. I mean, I've I've rented before.
Chris Picciurro:I mean, I've been a homeowner for the gosh. 27 of the last 20 or I don't know. 26 of the last 25 or 25 of the last 26 years. We rented for 1 year when we moved to Tennessee when we were transitioning. But yeah.
Chris Picciurro:And and it was just kinda I liked our little place, Some fond memories that we rented for a year, but I didn't have that sense of permanence, if that makes sense.
John Tripolsky:There's a lot of, a lot of warm and fuzzies. And we'll talk about the well, you get warm and fuzzies from some of the tax benefits too, but, you know, it's it's funny that we do this. Right? Because it's Chris, as you obviously know, and and a lot of our clients, friends, and family obviously know. So my family lives still here in Michigan.
John Tripolsky:Our house is about a 170 years old. So sometimes I would love to go back and put me in a rental, put me in a condo. My brain cells insanity would probably thank me. But yeah. All that aside, how in the world do people actually get tax benefits from owning a home?
John Tripolsky:And we're gonna we're gonna focus mainly on primary residence, which is the home that they live in, not rental properties. That's a whole nother investment strategy. And a lot of detail goes into that huge benefits to that. But we are gonna focus on the house you buy, the house you pay on or had paid on and live in today. So let's start this off, Chris.
John Tripolsky:Maybe I'll I'll let you drive this one a little bit more than normal and really just kinda walk us through again kinda, you know, what's out there. You know, what do people have? What benefits do they have? When do they have them, etcetera? So I'll let you kinda steer the ship or drive the nail, whatever we wanna say here.
John Tripolsky:Purchasing
Chris Picciurro:a primary residence does have a lot of tax advantages. The majority of them well, actually, they're varied. So let's start off with the first, the lowest hanging fruit, which is gonna be the ability to deduct expenses that would otherwise be personal in nature and nondeductible. So if you're renting a property, the rent you pay is a personal expense. There's no deduction for that.
Chris Picciurro:That's just the way it is. But if you own a property and you itemize your tax deductions check out that podcast episode. I don't know what number it is. Probably should've looked. Check out I love the shameless plugs.
Chris Picciurro:Yeah. Exactly. Gotta have a lot of this one. Shameless plug.
John Tripolsky:You know what's funny? Before we get into this too, you know you know what? I always say, and I haven't said this in probably about 2 months now, Is, you know, we're we're very good at not dating ourselves on how long we've been on this planet, but we've also we've been doing this podcast for a while now. You do realize so 70 some odd episodes every single week. And we really haven't doubled up on any topics.
John Tripolsky:So I'm sure coming up here soon, we're gonna have to start recapping or I should say, you know, getting back on some of them. There's been updates. But, yeah, I just wanted to throw that out there. We are we are committed to this, sir.
Chris Picciurro:Absolutely. So we we do have a podcast on, itemizing deductions. We have a podcast on mortgage readiness with our friend, Brenna. So but, anyway, if you itemize your deductions, your mortgage interest, your property taxes. Now, again, I am aware that there are some limitations to the state and local income tax deduction.
Chris Picciurro:And by the way, that might change, with some pending tax legislation. But your property taxes, your mortgage interest, and any mortgage points paid are deductible, meaning they can offset your taxable income instead of the rent that you're paying just not being a deduction at all. That's probably the that's the one of the primary benefits, but also it's a benefit that just keeps giving year after year. So though the fact that the majority you know, you if you have a whole of how payment or you have a mortgage payment, it gets broken down into your interest portion and then principal. Principal is paying down your loan, but any of that mortgage interest deduction is deductible, especially with mortgage rates a little higher now than they were a couple years ago.
Chris Picciurro:That deduction could be more valuable. And then points. Points are something that you pay when you obtain a mortgage loan at the beginning of the loan. They're they're a one point equals 1% of the loan amount. So if you bought if you have a mortgage and you, you had to pay 2 points and the mortgage is 2 $100,000, you would have paid $4,000 worth of points at the beginning of the mortgage.
Chris Picciurro:A lot of times those points are there either, to get your mortgage rate lower or it levels out the risk that the underwriters have for that lending that lender, or lendee, I should say. So but, anyway, mortgage points, mortgage interest deduction, and property tax deductions on a year to year basis are deductible instead of nondeductible the rent. So that's a big advantage, John.
John Tripolsky:And that's one of one thing too. I I mean, if I'm if I'm correct, I feel like those are 2 questions that are pretty commonly asked, and I don't think a lot of people miss those, right, when it comes time for for tax prep. I I mean, even some of the yeah. I wouldn't say some. I believe all of the softwares out there that I've ever come across, DIY ones, they ask those questions pretty cut and dry.
John Tripolsky:Now how much did you how much was your mortgage? How much was your interest? You obviously get those statements from, from your mortgage companies. So from your lender every year, they're pretty cut and dry. There's not a lot of gray area in that.
John Tripolsky:And then obviously, property taxes. That's a big one.
Chris Picciurro:But for traditional mortgage, you're gonna receive a form 1098 at the end of the year, and that will report your mortgage interest in points. But it also if you have an escrow account, it'll also include your property taxes. So I think you need to be you you need to be aware of is a lot of times, those mortgage servicing companies can change. So even though your mortgage is the same mortgage note, you may have more than 1 servicer. So sometimes as a tax professional, a a client could submit their mortgage statement to us, and we're like, gosh.
Chris Picciurro:Your mortgage interest is half of what it was last year. Okay, because the mortgage company changed, and they will actually have to dig up that second statement by no fault of the taxpayer. So just having those deductions tax, you know, tax deductible, those expenses tax deductible is a huge benefit. Those are the the ones those are the benefits that most people know about. Now let's talk about a couple we'll say 3, but we'll say 3 benefits that you might not know about.
Chris Picciurro:The first in in I'm gonna start with the one that you from from basically the most known to the least known. Okay? So the most well known extra benefit would be the ability to make energy efficient improvements to your home, which probably add value and still get a credit, a federal tax credit. Some states have provided credit, for that expenditure. And we know, John, yes, another plug for an episode, credit versus tax deduction.
Chris Picciurro:The difference, a credit is more valuable in general than a tax deduction. So you can do something in your home that adds value and you get paid a portion of that cost by from the government because of you're doing something that the government wants you to do either and and to increase the energy efficiency and reduce the strain on the grid. That's something, John, that you're pretty familiar with.
John Tripolsky:Yeah. Yeah. I mean, really and, you know, I know we're talking about the tax, you know, the tax side of this, but think about that too. So that's a that's kind of a low hanging fruit for some people. I think if you if you dive into it, you may actually be really surprised on how easy.
John Tripolsky:I won't say inexpensive, but some of those home energy efficiency improvements, are. So it's kind of a in the that you went on multiple sides. Right? So you're getting a tax credit for it, but, obviously, they're put in place really for you to save money on some of your utilities as well. So check that out.
John Tripolsky:We got a podcast on there.
Chris Picciurro:Yeah. And and there are some now with with the, new tax laws. There are some credits available for renters. It's just not many people renting a property are going to go through the expense of making an energy efficient home improvement when they're when they're a renter.
John Tripolsky:And and if anybody wants to, I mean, I will gladly go buy a property and put you in it because you will Let's be honest.
Chris Picciurro:Be the dream renter.
John Tripolsky:Right. They had right. Right.
Chris Picciurro:So the other one, the second that that some people know about, but, actually, it's funny. We just had someone in, do a, a 1 on 1 tax coaching with in our community that I was working with. And one of the few one of the items they wanted to talk about was they're very concerned that they sold their property. They're moving into another property, and they weren't aware of what we call the section 121 exclusion or the capital gains exclusion. And I said, how long have you and your husband and family lived in that other property?
Chris Picciurro:And this person said, I think it was, like, 8 years. I'm like, oh, jeez. Have you ever rented it? No. You're gonna you can exclude married couple up to half a $1,000,000 worth of capital gains because it was your primary residence.
Chris Picciurro:So in general, if something for property was your started off as your primary residence and has been your primary residence for 2 of the last 5 years, any capital you could exclude a capital gain up to for not single filers, $250,000, and married filing joint filers, $500,000 of capital gain. So the the capital gain exclusion is yes. It's nice to get deductions for the mortgages just for property taxes, but the capital gain exclusion is probably the most valuable dollar wise for, primary homeownership. So I'll give you an example real life. So when when we we moved down here to Tennessee about 8 years ago, moving from just outside Detroit to just outside Nashville, you know, was a little bit of an adjustment market wise.
Chris Picciurro:We have a lot of people from California, New York, New Jersey, Chicago moving here to the Nashville area over the last decade, and for them, the housing prices weren't a sticker shock like it was for us. Right? But what helped us out a lot was our property we owned in Michigan. We owned it for about 5 years and appreciated a a nice percentage. Luckily, we bought at the right time when the 2010, if you remember, the market was in the dumper, especially in the Detroit area.
Chris Picciurro:GM and the city of Detroit just went bankrupt. Sold that in 2016, but my wife and I were able to exclude our entire capital gain from that property and used that to, you know, as an additional down payment for this property here. So point is, real life example, even though you're paying think about that mortgage payment, John. You're paying some to the principal. You're paying some to interest, but paying down that principal.
Chris Picciurro:Eventually, when you sell the property, you're gonna get that money back. Right? And it could be tax free. So section 121 exclusion, we do have a separate podcast on that. There are a lot of really you know, not everyone's situation is cookie cutter.
Chris Picciurro:Right? Because if you have like, if you rented out a portion of the property our good friend, Andrew Pulos, who is in our teaching tax law community, an amazing enrolled agent in in Atlanta just talking to him about one of his clients, and I owned a duplex. And one side was a primary residence. The other side was rented out, and and, you know, that's a partial 121 exclusion. So not everyone's cookie cutter, but the point is if you own a primary residence and you sell it, most likely, you're gonna get a full or partial exclusion from any capital gain.
Chris Picciurro:Those laws changed, I wanna say, golly, maybe 15, 20 years ago where you did previously, you had to buy another property for at least the value of the one you sold. Now you don't have to do that. You you could've done what my wife and I did. We sold our property in Michigan and rented for a year here. I didn't have to buy a replacement property.
Chris Picciurro:Now some people are like, why? This is a really weird rule. Remember, remember that tax agencies are your involuntary business partner. John, how long is the term of someone in the house of representatives?
John Tripolsky:Oh, man. They're gonna stump me on this one. Oh, I've I've turned off my everything I know about politics.
Chris Picciurro:That's alright. It's 2
John Tripolsky:of the next couple months. 2 years. Okay. I was gonna I was gonna say 2, but, you know, I know.
Chris Picciurro:I know you were. They, usually, you're putting me on the spot, and I'm I'm I might be giving you the middle finger, silently. But
Disclaimer:You caught
John Tripolsky:me on that one. Don't worry. I I was doing it. Don't worry.
Chris Picciurro:You just couldn't see it. So there's no coincidence that that's the that's the time frame for the section 121. Imagine someone lives in, you know, Boise, Idaho. They get elected to the house of representatives. They go live in Washington DC, buy a house there, live there for 2 years, do their term.
Chris Picciurro:They don't get reelected. They sell their home in Washington. Guess what? Conveniently, they won't pay capital gain on that because they lived there for those
John Tripolsky:2 years.
Chris Picciurro:So Sneaky sneaky. Yep. So then we've got that. So for capital gain exclusion is a huge advantage. And then the final one is a is something that you've you've, made a lot of people in the teaching tax law community aware of.
Chris Picciurro:The Augusta rule. The Augusta rule named after Augusta, Georgia, home of the, masters. I'm not a golfer, so I had to actually stretch my brain on that one. And with that good, man.
John Tripolsky:You get it'll stretch out. You gotta you gotta take the long drive.
Chris Picciurro:So the Augusta rule
John Tripolsky:says that
Chris Picciurro:a homeowner can rent out their primary residence for up to 14 days per year and not report any of the rental income on their tax return. So think about that. Think about special events. Most big cities have special events. Now there's an inconvenience that you have to evacuate your home, but I you know, think about the Super Bowl or the, you
John Tripolsky:know, like I know. South by Southwest in Austin.
Chris Picciurro:South by South and and I know that the World Cup's coming to the, the Americas. Right? So if you live in an area that and you wanna rent your house out for 2 weeks, yeah, there might be some partying going on. There might be some but guess what? If you can rent your house out for a couple weeks and pocket 5, 6, maybe $10 per year, that's tax free.
Chris Picciurro:So especially if you live in, like, Indianapolis area and you you wanna rent your house out for the Indy 500, it doesn't matter. Rent your house out for up to 14 days and absolutely exclude all of that rental income from tax. There are some special rules for people that own businesses and rent their house to their business under the Augusta rule. It goes beyond the scope of of this podcast. If you have questions about that, jump into the jump into our, our community.
Chris Picciurro:But, yeah, the Augusta rule. And and I'm telling you, you know, think about, John, think about what like, think about the Daytona 500 or or could even it could be any especially any any city that, you know, even think about Northern Michigan. Right? I mean, during 4th July week or Labor Day week, a lot of people that live in those smaller communities, it's fun to be around, but when you've got 10 times amount of people that are in your community that use that are usually there, If you live there, you wanna get out of there. You know, CMA Music Fest here.
Chris Picciurro:I mean, Nashville, we got a in Franklin, specifically, we have so many events that we could we could evacuate for. And Yeah.
John Tripolsky:Well, I'm gonna wait. I'm and I'm gonna be leaning on you a little bit for this one here for a little bit of forecasting. So we all know that you're gonna go pro in pickleball very soon.
Chris Picciurro:Oh, boy. And by
John Tripolsky:the way, I'm I'm the one that threw this out there now. Usually, it's you that talk about pickleball. So I'm gonna lean on you to tell me where the world championship of pickleball is gonna be. I'm gonna go buy a place there and be ready to rent it out. So
Chris Picciurro:That's a good that's a good question, Daniel. I'm far from there. Unfortunately, you know, the last week or so, I feel like I haven't been on my a game. But the you know, I guess I don't know what the world championship's gonna be. I but but that's alright, though, John.
Chris Picciurro:You you know, it's probably it might not be in the United States, first of all, so you wouldn't get the Augusta rule. But but but in all seriousness, I mean, there's a lot of tournaments in Arizona. Think about spring training, you know, for for a lot of baseball teams in Phoenix area and all over Florida. So there are a lot. John, don't you I mean, you live outside a certain college town that I Yeah.
Chris Picciurro:Don't love.
John Tripolsky:Your favorite place. That's t. Oh. But I also You would know you're a wolverine.
Chris Picciurro:If you live in a college town like Ann Arbor, Michigan, you you could rent your house out for the weekend 7 times to people that wanna tailgate, that wanna come in for football games, and pay no tax on that. Not a bad gig. Beautiful thing.
John Tripolsky:No. Not at all. Maybe I'll go buy a farm, start growing, cucumbers for pickling, and then I'll build a A pickle. Is a whole this is a whole other topic. Well yeah.
John Tripolsky:Yes. But that's and, Chris, it you know, it all joking aside. Right? I I think a lot of these and, again, as I mentioned in our previous show, really our our purpose here is to not I shouldn't say expose. I don't want to make it sound like we're, you know, the relationship scandal podcast here, but really just put it in front of people that these opportunities do exist.
John Tripolsky:That really aren't top of mind for the average taxpayer. They might think of it as, wow, you know, great. I can write off my mortgage interest. And they're excited about that because they didn't know you could even do that. But so many other things.
John Tripolsky:So many other things. And as, you know, we talk a lot about in real estate investing on that side for our for our REIs, our real estate investors. You know, that that whole all those efforts are built around tax strategy because it's based around money. Right? Like, it's the tree like a business.
John Tripolsky:It is a business in its sense. Look. So if you plan on owning a home, there are x opportunities.
Chris Picciurro:Well and typically, you know, communities, no matter what the socioeconomic landscape is, typically, communities that have a higher percentage of homeownership, have a little more stability. They you know, homeownership does create property tax revenue. It creates more, sense of community. And, you know, so there's a lot of value to a community where where you have a high percentage of homeownership. So, yeah, I mean, that's, you know, though so that's something to consider.
Chris Picciurro:Now, obviously, you know, if you if you buy and sell a property, there's some there's some costs associated with that. So if you're only gonna be in a home for a short period of time, you've gotta factor that out. But in general, a lot of times we hear people, well, yeah, I wanna buy a house because there's some no, it's good for taxes. If you ever push anyone on and say, what do you mean? What's how does it help you?
Chris Picciurro:A lot of times they don't know. So if you do that, point them into this podcast and you'll be and we'll say thank you very much.
John Tripolsky:Absolutely. As I as I mentioned in the last show, I think I said it as, you know, if if you don't listen to this, well, we can't be friends. But, you know, maybe what we'll do is, you know, that we talked about the Augusta rule briefly. Maybe we'll create like the teaching tax flow rule and and push that along. But really all it would be is based around what we're doing anyways, helping legally and ethically reduce the taxes you pay in your lifetime.
John Tripolsky:But thanks, Chris. Thanks for running through this man. I'm so I mean, some of this obviously I knew about, but it's good to hear it and kind of see it all laid out, you know, in in one space. And in a sense, you kind of create a checklist. You know, if you're thinking about buying your first home, you know, if you're thinking about, hey, should I get rid of this, move into a rental, etcetera?
John Tripolsky:I mean, obviously, a lot of factors play a part of that, just not how much I can write off come tax time. But, again, go check out some previous episodes we have. A lot of what we have talked about even to date, you know, we've been doing it a while like we talked about, really kinda leads up to this. So I I'm glad we did this one in the middle of some other topics that we that we're planning for. And as always, as I close out, we will see everybody back here, same time, same place here on the Teaching Tax Flow podcast next week.
John Tripolsky:Hey, everyone. Thanks for hanging out with us here on this episode talking about homeownership and the tax benefits behind it. So, any more questions you have, shoot us an email hello at teaching tax law dot com, or as always, jump over to that defeating taxes private Facebook group. There's your invite. Just go to defeating taxes.com.
John Tripolsky:It'll send you directly there and as Chris actually mentioned in this show, if you have a friend or anybody, family member, anybody that's been maybe they don't know that any of this exists. Maybe they own a home. Maybe they don't think it really does anything for them. Send it to this podcast. Let them listen to it or even better.
John Tripolsky:You listened to this podcast, you go to the dinner table, and you share your knowledge, and you can take credit for it. Don't even tell me you heard it from us. You take the credit. You took the time to learn it. That's what we are here for, to educate and empower you to reduce your taxes and make you smarter come dinner time with the family and friends.
John Tripolsky:So thank you again for joining us. We will see you very soon back here on the podcast.
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