Ep. 106 | 2024 Election Tax Proposal Review: Donald Trump
Download MP3Welcome back to the Teaching Tax Flow podcast, everybody. Episode 106 today. We're wrapping up our White House walk throughs with part 2 of 2, and we are looking at candidate former president Donald Trump. But before we dive into this one specifically, let's take a brief moment and thank our episode sponsor.
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John Tripolsky:Alright, everybody. Welcome back to the Teaching Tax Hello podcast. This like the last episode, right, we're kinda dubbing it the, White House walk throughs. So here we are now. We're gonna talk about our other current candidate here.
John Tripolsky:So Donald Trump, obviously, for the other party. Last episode, we talked about Harris, discussed various areas of tax proposals that are out there in various different corners and whatnot. Some of the stuff you may have heard of, some of the stuff you may not even be interested in, but here we are again. We're gonna run through these. And just a reminder, so we do not give any opinions during this.
John Tripolsky:Really, we may crack a little joke here or there. But as you've already heard and watched if you've watched any of our podcasts, that's pretty much all we do sometimes. Or at least I do. Right? I I can't keep up with the knowledge that Chris brings to the table, so I try to bring just a sliver of comedy.
John Tripolsky:You know, kinda, in a sense, hides my stupidity sometimes. So, hey. Some hopefully, it works. If not, oh, well, tough. You're still here.
John Tripolsky:You're here for the content, not for my entertainment. And let's dive into the other the other candidates. So, again, this time, we're gonna look at Trump. Last one was Harris. Go back.
John Tripolsky:Listen to that one if you haven't. Chris Pacquero, you ready for this one, buddy? Absolutely. Let's do it, man. So this again, we're gonna hit all the corners that are out there in or from the information that's provided to us by the tax foundation.
John Tripolsky:So this is not stuff that we sat around in a bar top, and we decided to pull certain information and share with you. We're doing the best we can here to compare really apples and apples, not apples and oranges too much. Obviously, there's many differences, but also many, you know, couple similarities in here too. So let's start from the top. Similar to the format we did with the last candidate on the last show, let's look at business taxes if we can. If that works for you, Chris.
Chris Picciurro:Absolutely. Well, the first thing to remember is that under former president Trump's administration, the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act of of 2017, which pretty much gets mentioned on all of these episodes, was passed. And that goes through 2026, where there's phase outs of different things along the way. And many of what he would is proposing based on the tax foundation are it's really an expansion of or continuation or permanence of the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act of 2017.
Chris Picciurro:So but there are some variations, and there's some things to consider, that we're gonna jump into. So remember and we'll start with business taxes. So thanks for teeing it up. On the business tax side, corporate income tax rate. So this is for c corporations.
Chris Picciurro:Mentioned this in our previous episode. So if you if you're hearing this twice, congratulations. Have a sip of water or something. If you haven't heard it, go back and listen to the other one. But, anyway, c corporations right now are currently taxed at a 21% flat corporate tax rate based on their net income.
Chris Picciurro:C corporations can be small taxpayers, but, typically, they're going to be larger organizations. All publicly traded companies, are a, are c corporations. And the big disadvantage of a c corp is that there there's double taxation. So the corporation's gonna pay a tax on whenever it's not profitous, and then any of the dividends it pays to shareholders, is taxable to the shareholder, but but it's not a deduction for the corporation. So right now, corporate tax rates were dropped to 21% under the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, and former president Trump is proposing that that gets lowered from 21% to 20%.
Chris Picciurro:Furthermore, he wants to lower the corporate tax rate to 15% for companies that make their products in the United States. So those are domestically made products. It would be interesting to figure out how that's if that's, you know, how from a tax perspective, that's gonna is that gonna be some type of self certification? When you prepare your tax return, is it a box you check that's a is it a percent of the product made in the United States, or does it have to all be all of it? But, anyway
John Tripolsky:And those are always interesting too, Chris, because as somebody who lived literally in bird's eye view of a of a large port. Right? I used to see vehicles come into the come into in inbound, so basically imported, and all they would do is change the change the wheels off of them, and it would you know, now they're assembled in the states. So kinda kinda in the same comedic reference is I think we did on the last one where Harris had proposed the the tip, the tip change or taxation on tips and how people could find ways around it. There might be another one.
John Tripolsky:Not that we're all sneak nets here at the podcast, but
Chris Picciurro:know Well, yeah. I mean, there's always there's always ways to tax plans. So so, anyway, corporate tax rates go down under former president Trump's proposal. He doesn't have any changes to capital gains or dividends because, remember, right now, long term capital gains and qualified dividends are taxed for the vast majority of taxpayers at only 15%, a special tax rate. For some taxpayers, it's at 0.
Chris Picciurro:I mean, for some high in income earners, it's taxed at 20%. A long term capital gain is selling an asset, that you've owned or an investment. It could be a stock buying, mutual fund. It could be real estate that you've owned for at least 1 year. And then qualified dividends remember I mentioned dividends paid from those corporations?
Chris Picciurro:Qualified dividends are dividends paid by corporations where you've owned that share of stock for at least 1 year. So remember, one of the three laws of teaching tax flow that tax agencies are your involuntary business partner. Tax laws written to encourage and discourage certain behavior. So right now, under the tax cuts and jobs act, what does that tell you? It tells you that buy and hold is taxed at a much less lower rate than stock trading or owning things only for a year or less.
Chris Picciurro:So I don't see any changes proposed right now to the capital gain and dividend because it's already where they want it. You know, president former president Trump's wanted it wanted it to be when he won his first election. Now this is where it gets tricky, John, credits, deductions, and exemptions. Remember that example I used in the previous episode? So we talk about tax brackets.
Chris Picciurro:Remember, your marginal tax rate is way more important than your tax bracket. It's the number one KPI when it comes to tax planning. Your marginal tax rate is a tax bracket is a static bracket that says from these tax plan comes, this is the tax you're gonna pay for that trench of income. Well, tax credits, deductions, and exemptions are not part of the tax bracket, and they get phased out based on income, in in a variety of different things. So if you're driving around, listening to this, running, walking, hey.
Chris Picciurro:If you're outside walking, running, congratulations. You're doing some exercise and you're learning something. However, this is my example of when you go and buy a ticket on any type of ticket exchange. The ticket might be $50, but because of some type of, quote, unquote, convenience fee, technology fee, administrative fee, the ticket's $68. Right?
Chris Picciurro:So when you're voting, not just nationally, locally in your state elections, when candidates say that they're not gonna increase a tax or your tax rate, that might be true, but that doesn't mean your marginal tax rate's not gonna go up due to these credits, deductions, and exemptions. So these are your I'm not gonna call them hidden taxes because they're not hidden. They're just they're not on your bill until it comes to the table. Right? It's it's it's one of those things.
Chris Picciurro:So, former president Trump's, vice presidential, running mate, JD Vance, has discussed increasing the child tax credit to $5,000. Remember with, vice president Harris's proposal was that the child tax credit is phases you know, is a little higher when the for under 1 year old and then phases down. The child tax credit right now is at $2,000, so that would be a significant increase for the child tax credit. Now remember, those child tax credits, doesn't matter if you're who your candidate is. There's probably gonna be a phase out of that child tax credit based on income.
Chris Picciurro:So you have to think about that. Also, there so when the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act was enacted, one of the major, major issues for the higher income higher state income states, it's a mouthful, was the phase out of what we call the salt tax deduction. Salt is not something that you're putting on your french fries. Salt is state and local income tax. So for taxpayers that itemize their deduction, they can only deduct up to $10,000 of state and local income tax.
Chris Picciurro:Well, John, if if you now there are some strategies if you own a business that is a partnership or s corp to to maybe boost that up or get that as a business deduction. But, John, let's say you are a live in the state of New York, and you have a combined w two ages of $30,000 or $300,000. You could very well be paying $18,000 of state tax. You could be paying $12,000 of property tax. You're paying $30,000 of property taxes and state income tax.
Chris Picciurro:Right now, you only get to deduct 10,000 on the federal return. So that $20,000 goes bye bye. So, what what he has what he has mentioned is that the reinstating of an unlimited itemized deduction for SALT taxes and discontinue that cap as part of the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act extension. That would be a major shift for those higher income states. You know, we always have to talk about California.
John Tripolsky:You have to. New Jersey,
Chris Picciurro:New York. But, golly, there's people that are modest incomes. Let let's say it's a household in Michigan. Right? Let's say they have a $150,000 worth of household income.
Chris Picciurro:They're paying 4% of state tax, let's say, 6,000, but let's say their property taxes are 9, 10000. That's not unreasonable. Right now, they're only getting to deduct about 60% of that. Now they'd be able to deduct all of it. So that's something to take a look at, and we'll see.
Chris Picciurro:And and who knows? It could be phased out by income. We just don't know. Estate and wealth tax. So right now right now, we are in a situation where someone could pass away with about $13,000,000 worth of assets and pay no estate tax.
Chris Picciurro:And, that's that's part of the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act. That phases away in 2026 down to a low much, much lower amount. And one of the proposals that former president Trump has is that that to make the higher estate tax permanent under the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act because right now, it's gonna go back, I think, down to $5,000,000, which is still a significant amount of assets, but, you know, not too long ago, the estate tax exemption was $2,000,000. Now that's a that's a lot of assets. That doesn't mean when we talk about estate taxes for people listening, that means all of your assets.
Chris Picciurro:We've I've worked with several clients, especially, like, you know, 15 years ago when I was, did was really more in the tax prep side of things. Gosh. I've had I had clients that maybe bought a home in a in a nice area outside of Detroit. They've paid it off. They're 80 years old.
Chris Picciurro:They've taken required minimum distributions out of their IRA, but they've got, you know, they've got a $1,000,000 in their IRA. They've got a home worth $1,000,000, and they have a life insurance policy for half a $1,000,000 and some other assets, savings and you know? So it's not like they are rolling in the door. They're they're genuinely concerned about is that $1,000,000 of cash gonna last them the rest of their life that's in their retirement account. Because their other assets aren't very they can't grab their life insurance, and they can't unless they sell their house, they're not gonna have the equity from that house.
Chris Picciurro:So the point is they would be subject to an estate tax if the estate tax exemption was back down to $2,000,000, a very what we would say you know? I mean, let's be honest, John. If if you're if you're advising someone to retire right now and you live in middle America, what how much in the assets do you think you need?
John Tripolsky:It's it's a tough one. And and now almost to answer that one too, Chris, to answer it but not answer. Right? And this is this is my own personal opinion, not political at all. It's almost like I feel that even within my circle of friends, right, that the I feel that lifestyles now are becoming polar more and more polar opposites.
John Tripolsky:There's not as many that are, you know, comfortable in the middle. You either have over here or you have, you know, way down there too. So and that kinda goes back a little bit even till one of the proposals that Harris had made, you know, regarding the starter homes. Right? I learned something from that one regarding a look back period, which I I just figured, hey.
John Tripolsky:A starter home has to be your first home ever in your name or the first one you've ever lived in that you've had ownership in. But then, you know, some of this stuff, it's it's interesting. It's very it's very interesting. And to be totally honest and transparent with everybody, this is probably the most in-depth this election that I've ever actually looked into proposals as it relates to taxes, not just proposals that relates to other things. You know what I mean?
John Tripolsky:So this is this is very interesting.
Chris Picciurro:Well, we're gonna and and so, yeah, we'll see what happens there. But, you know, the point is is the estate tax exemption now, if it comes back down, is going to hit a lot of people that it wouldn't wouldn't really affect before. And and if you're listening to this in a state pen in an estate planning attorney, you might you might be licking your chops. You might be rolling your eyes. I don't know.
Chris Picciurro:You're gonna have a a lot more planning to be done. Former president Trump does want to tax private university endowments. So many of these larger universities they're not even large universities. A lot of them are older universities that have endowment programs that have significant amount of assets, he wants to he wants to tax them. And and in 2022, I think 58 institutions paid $224,000,000 of tax under, which which for the first time so for the first time in 2022, they these endowments had to pay 1.4% tax.
Chris Picciurro:So he's looking to he's looking to increase that. That really doesn't affect too many people listening to this podcast. Right. Now let's jump into the personal side of things. So this is where things get really interesting.
Chris Picciurro:What he's proposing is we make the expiring individual income tax cuts in the in the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act permanent. And that means that the a lot of the the where where we're at with the tax brackets you know that I I'm a big advocate of understanding where your marginal tax rate is versus a tax bracket, quote, unquote. But just to give you an idea, when you compare tax brackets, from 2017 to 2018, which is when the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act went into effect, of course, our friends of the Tax Foundation did this as well, you'll see that for a married couple filing jointly, k, at a, let's just say, $300,000 income level, they're in the 24% marginal tax bracket now. Previously, before tax cuts and jobs act, they're in the 33% tax bracket. So the point is these tax brackets that we're in now, you you're probably sick of hearing me say this, John, that taxes are on sale.
Chris Picciurro:Taxes would potentially go on sale permanently, I guess. I don't know if if this was if the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act brackets were were made permanent. If not, we're going back to the pre 2018 tax brackets, which are significantly, higher. Mhmm. So that's that's something to consider.
Chris Picciurro:Now how do you pay for that? Right? Because you you can't just cut everyone's taxes, can you? And we're gonna jump into the president Trump or former president Trump, I should say, is a big advocate of increasing tariffs. So I'm gonna touch on that in a couple minutes, but let's stick in the in the individual tax side.
Chris Picciurro:I mentioned re you know, reinstating that that that itemized itemized deduction for state and local income taxes. There's a, yeah, there's a lot of a lot of people in those higher tax states that did not like getting that limited. Because, ultimately, John, if you you know, if you're paying think about it. Between property taxes and income taxes, 15% of your income to taxes that you can't even deduct, and you're that that's a significant amount. Also, right now, when you put money into the Social Security system that's going through your paycheck or you're paying self employment tax, you are not receiving any type of deduction for that for the for unless, I mean, if you're self employed, you get a deduction for half of it.
Chris Picciurro:But, ultimately, you adds the employee hat, not the employer hat. You're not getting any deduction for it, and then your employer funds it and matches. So you're putting ultimately after tax dollars into Social Security. When you get social when you start drawing Social Security, it can be nontaxable, but the vast majority of people pay tax on their Social Security because I think your income has to be, like, less than $25,000 for you not to pay tax on your Social Security. And that maximum rate with which escalates quickly is 85%.
Chris Picciurro:So a lot of people are paying tax on either 50% or 85% of their Social Security income even though they didn't get a deduction for it when they paid it in. This is the first time and, again, I've only been doing this for 20 something years. I've seen someone really stand up and say, I wanna exempt Social Security benefits from taxation. So, we'll see what happens, but that's that's what he is, he is proposing. Interesting, though, John, on this one.
Chris Picciurro:Both vice president Harris and former president Trump have proposed exempting tip income from taxes. An interest so that that's been that's been really, really interesting. We'll we'll see what happens on that. I mean You
John Tripolsky:know, kind of as we touched on that other one, right, in in a little bit earlier here too, it's that's a really tricky one because it there's almost pros and cons, but it's almost from a from a managerial standpoint. It's, you know, which way do you, you know, which way do you go about it? Because if I remember right, is it and, again, I don't know this. Is it is it a state or is it a federal minimum wage for you know, off the top of
Chris Picciurro:my head, I don't know. I know your state has different I think there's a federal minimum wage, and then states could either adopt that or they can make their own minimum wage, which is potentially higher. I I really don't.
John Tripolsky:So $3 or $2 or something like that. But, yeah, that that'll be interesting to see how that one plays out. And, again, that's as we mentioned, you know, previously as well, it's these are only proposals. They're the likelihood of I wouldn't say any of anything on either side going all the way through to the finish line, you know, without tweaks and changes and modifications and, you know, agreements between stuff is is kinda slim on some stuff. So give or take all the way.
John Tripolsky:Politics 101, really. Right?
Chris Picciurro:Well, we're gonna yeah. I mean, we're gonna see what happens. I if if there's bipartisan support of exempting tip income from taxation, it might very well go through. Now and if you think about it, John, though, I could see, you know, tip income obviously, it's gonna take away from from, the money going into the government, but, you know, it could I mean, you can make the argument, and I'm not trying to make this. I don't know how I feel about this yet, but that it's a gift.
Chris Picciurro:Like, hey. You gave me great service. What's an extra buck or 2? It's it's because gifts aren't taxable.
John Tripolsky:Right.
Chris Picciurro:You know? So now but you're gonna have issue. Right? You could have issues that I could. There's always gonna be people trying to circumvent these rules.
Chris Picciurro:You know? So if I if I what if what if you have someone that's trying I'm sure family members are gonna be exempt from this and all that stuff. But, anyway, once these yes. Things get passed and as we have a a presidential president-elect out of the our 2 candidates, we will definitely have more contact con content on that. Former president Trump also wants to exempt overtime pay from taxation, which is interesting.
Chris Picciurro:You know, what's over now it overtime in my book's usually over 40 hours for the week or over 8 hours in a day, for hourly employees. Now let's talk about payroll taxes. We we talked about you know, with payroll taxes, how are those affected by potentially the Social Security benefits being exempt from tax and and tax being not having to pay tax on overtime? You know, would you owe the Social Security on the overtime pay, or is it exempt from all taxes, including federal tax? We'll have to see how this shakes out.
Chris Picciurro:Now the the tariffs. Okay. So, obviously, everything I've talked about, except for slapping these private university endowments with a higher tax, are tax reductions. So if you're reducing taxes, there's a there could be a variety of things that happen. You know, but there's more money in the economy, etcetera, etcetera.
Chris Picciurro:But what where is he in looking to increase? And these are very, very significant. Alright? First, increase impose a universal baseline tariff on all US imports of 10% to 20%. So that's on any import.
Chris Picciurro:That's a significant tariff, and we know a tariff is basically a tax on that on those on those imports. The second one is extremely targeted. Impose a 60% tariff on all US imports from China. That's, again, that's that's significant. That would obviously have some ramifications all over the place.
Chris Picciurro:Right? You know? I mean, not on it'll trickle all all around. So we'll but that's what's getting proposed.
John Tripolsky:And, like, yeah, it should lot. Obviously, it it's proposals. Right? And the the trickle out kind of the the ripple effect. Right?
John Tripolsky:It's it could be good. It could be bad on on either side. Who knows? The elimination of tax on tips could be the greatest thing we've seen in a long time, and it may have very little to do with that. Maybe car sales would go up.
John Tripolsky:But, yeah, there's this is why I'm not an economist. I stick in the marketing world. But, yeah, to to your point on that one, it's it's almost everything here is it's almost at face value for as much as we know, right, is what it's worth.
Chris Picciurro:Exactly. And, you know, if the, you know, if that and like I said, if that tax cuts and jobs act does get set permanent, here are some of the just thoughts about what would that would mean. Lower rates and reconfigured brackets, the qualified business income deduction, QBI deduction, or section 19980 deduction for pass through business income. That's that's those small taxpayers of up to 20% would would be, would go you know, would carry on. Larger state tax exemption would carry in.
Chris Picciurro:100% bonus depreciation would most likely come back and be permanent. Okay? So that's when you talk about the cost segregation studies and small business owners investing in assets, that that's something that people have to think about. And yeah. So it's it's interesting.
Chris Picciurro:You know? And so just like just like vice president, Harris's proposals, the tax foundation took took a look at the what would this mean to, full time employment full time employee equivalent? So in other words, would it add jobs, do they think, or would it reduce jobs here in the United States if all of this was passed? So if all of that was passed, we the tax foundation feels it would be a reduction of 387,000 jobs. Mhmm.
Chris Picciurro:Now interestingly enough, the the tariffs, the one for China and the universal tar tariff going from 10 to 20%, would the tax foundation feels it would reduce jobs by over a 1000000 jobs, which means the other proposals so for instance, like making the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act changes permanent, the tax foundation would increase the full time equivalent employment by $792,000. So, again, why all these for vice president Harris and all all of her proposals and former president Trump, not all these aren't gonna just get passed. But these are the things that will get negotiated. Probably, you know, we'll we'll see something in the middle. Who knows?
Chris Picciurro:We'll have to see what happens. There's a lot of every every house of representative seats open. As we know, a third of the senate seats are open. We'll see what happens. But So you're saying
John Tripolsky:I stand a chance. So yeah. So, you know,
Chris Picciurro:you know, Sparty still could get in there with a write in with Cooper, and you never know. But that's the theme is is reducing the taxes domestically and increasing increasing tariffs.
John Tripolsky:Absolutely. So Well, Chris, I'm glad we went over these, and I and and I am really happy with the way that we kinda what I'd say the overview on each of these. Right? I know we had some discussions of, you know, do we do a separate episode per focus area? Do we do one like we did here, separate episode on each candidate in no specific order?
John Tripolsky:And I'm glad we went about it this way because some of these areas, right, we have more information than other ones. You know, some of them are to be determined. And even even at this time frame, you know, it's not like this election is tomorrow. There there's gonna be some time. Things may change.
John Tripolsky:People may change positions a little bit, etcetera, etcetera. So we don't know. I mean and, again, I'm I'm not a politician nor would I ever wanna be one in Washington. But, yeah, there's there's a lot of lot of stuff that goes into that. And and, again, as we mentioned earlier, it's you know, on wholehearted transparency, it's it's a different point of view to look at a lot of these candidates almost strictly looking at it from tax purposes and what's being proposed and, you know, where where things could affect other areas and vice versa.
John Tripolsky:So I'm I'm I'm really glad that we we did it this way. I know we're kinda bouncing back and forth. But if you guys have any questions on this stuff, I mean, as we mentioned here and on the last one as well, tax foundation is a fantastic fantastic resource. So you're you're gonna find nothing but factual information that's out there. It's not being, you know, put on there as a as a message board forum.
John Tripolsky:It's actually vetted and put out there by the organization themselves. So we always from teaching tax law, we always reference that as a very credible source on our end. So we, we encourage you to do the same. But, Chris, Elizabeth, if there's anything else to add here, I mean, we if Sparty was running for president, let's ask you this question. What do you think her, her messages would be?
John Tripolsky:Like, what is her what would her marketing what would her campaign slogan Manually be? I don't know. I know Cooper bark
Chris Picciurro:loves barking and and more cuddling. Oh, I see. Should make an awesome present, John.
John Tripolsky:That's You know, I I love that. That is yours. You know, I I haven't had one in a couple weeks. I real I gotta go back to the drawing board and and come up with some good ones. I got I got nothing.
John Tripolsky:Although, I'm dealing with a almost 4 year old at home who now is in the phase of saying no to me over everything. So my my dad jokes are more like, oh my gosh. Just leave me alone, kid. But, anyways, well, this wraps it up on our White House walk through kind of comparison on these tax proposals. So, again, go back and listen to these.
John Tripolsky:They are date and time stamped when we release these. So if things change, don't come looking at us and blame us and say that we put it out there and it's not true. These are prerecorded. These ones specifically are not live. But any questions you have, best place you could even drop those in, but proceed with a little bit of caution given the sensitive nature of the topics in some sense or another.
John Tripolsky:Get on defeating taxes. That's our private Facebook group. Defeating taxes dotcom. We'll take you directly there. Join the group.
John Tripolsky:Ask the questions. Obviously, please keep them tax and business and finance related, but do it. We've I can honestly say this, Chris. I think in the couple years that we've had that group, I can't even think of one specific time that we've had somebody kinda step out of lines where we got to play the moderator card. So I'm but I think we're kinda proud
Chris Picciurro:of that one. People stay yeah. Yeah. We have a great group of people, and that's part of the reason that, you know, we made it a private group. Right?
Chris Picciurro:You've gotta you've gotta agree to be not you can't be a meanie. Yeah. Jump in there. Seriously, jump in there defeating taxes. Get you let's let's start getting through here because, ultimately, once you and go to teachingtaxflow.com.
Chris Picciurro:Just drop your name, email address. Stay in touch because we're gonna have a bunch more content, and we're gonna keep keep going because, ultimately, our community drives the content, not us. Absolutely. Absolutely. And thank you, Chris,
John Tripolsky:for running through this again. We covered so much information these past 2 episodes. I know I I usually have my sticky pad, notepad next to me. I had to retire it for a full on notepad. This this puppy's got a lot of lot of notes.
John Tripolsky:So as always, close it out with we'll see everybody back here next week, roughly the same time. It will be a different topic this time here on the Teaching Tax Hello Podcast. Thank you for joining us.
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