Ep. 131 | Infinite Banking with Whole Life Insurance
Download MP3Hey, everyone, and welcome back to the Teaching Tax Flow podcast episode 131 today. We are gonna look at a concept referred to as infinite banking and how exactly whole life insurance applies to that. But before we get into it, let's take a brief moment and thank our episode sponsor.
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John Tripolsky:Hey, everybody, and welcome back to the teaching tax flow podcast. As we always like to say here at the beginning, we have a great topic and a great guest. Of course, this time, we actually mean it like we do all the time naturally. If we didn't have a great guest or a topic, we'd kick it to the curb. We don't have it.
John Tripolsky:So there you go. There you are. There you have it. We give you the best stuff we can come up with. So on this topic today, I know I'm excited about it.
John Tripolsky:I know for a fact that Chris is excited about this one because he was so excited, he actually forgot to invite me to do this recording with this guest earlier today. So here we are. And speaking of that, I like to throw Chris under the bus a little bit. Right? As everybody knows here that's been listening to this now on a 20 something episodes, I've known this handsome gentleman for twenty three, twenty four years.
John Tripolsky:So, of course, I like to put it out there publicly that he forgot to do something because that never happens, by the way. So now it's on record. So speaking of that, Chris, I'm glad you're about a thousand miles away from me because you physically can't punch me in the throat for saying that. But, you know, welcome welcome back to your own show, man. How are doing today?
Chris Picciurro:I'm doing amazing. Thanks for thanks for having thanks for letting myself invite myself back. It feels good.
John Tripolsky:You invited yourself to this recording, but not me. So I see
Chris Picciurro:I know this is a really rare thing that I forgot to invite you to the recording, but we are very we are both very excited to have an amazing guest. This topic, we've been sitting on for, honestly, a year and a half, trying to to find the perfect resource. And, luckily, if you're listening to this show, you're lucky. Alright? Because the person that's going to talk to us about infinite banking and those concepts today is a nationally recognized speaker.
Chris Picciurro:He has you know, he's either speaking in Costa Rica or on a on an investor cruise. And luckily for me, when I moved my family from Detroit area to Franklin, Tennessee, I rented a little office out because the kids were so young, and we had, at the time, didn't have a home office. And this gentleman literally had the office right next to me. I owe him countless premium sparkled waters from from waddling into his office and stealing. I didn't steal them because I asked if I could have them.
Chris Picciurro:But it from from someone that was my neighbor, my office neighbor, developed a friendship and and actually a a client relationship. And and Tom, and his team have helped my wife and I personally implement, infinite banking strategies. This helped us buy our first short term rental property in Florida. So it's always extra special to me to have someone on here that I personally work with, and and I'm so excited for Tom to share his knowledge. So, Tom Lani, thank you so much for joining the Teaching Tax Flow podcast, and welcome. Thank you so much, Chris. I'm really excited to be here. I love talking about this strategy and how it can help people because, really, that's that's what this is all about is trying to figure out what is the most effective way to help people get the most out of what they have to work with. So I and I love the fact that you do these podcasts and get the word out on a bunch of different unique strategies.
Tom Laune:So thanks for having me, Chris.
Chris Picciurro:My pleasure. And, you know, before we jump into the what we're gonna call IBC or Infinite Banking Concept, Can you give us a little I I love your story. I always feel that and we talk about this in in our practice and that people don't care how much you know until they know how much you care. And, I know your journey to helping people to financial freedom and to to, implement these infinite banking concepts wasn't your traditional route.
John Tripolsky:Right. But it's a
Chris Picciurro:route and I know, it comes from passion and comes from experience. So can you tell us a little bit about how you got you know, what you started doing, when you first got into your professional life and
Tom Laune:and how you
Chris Picciurro:find yourself where you're at now?
Tom Laune:I totally will, Chris. Thank you. So I started out in a very unique system of really not anything to do with financial products at all. I was a recording engineer in the music industry, and I got a chance to work with just some huge wonderful artists over that time, people like Bruce Springsteen and REM and the fabulous Thunderbirds and Aretha Franklin, and the list goes on. I was doing that for twenty nine years.
Tom Laune:And during that time, I had a financial adviser come to me and say, hey. You really need to get some income protection in case you're ever not able to work. Right? And I didn't know we know what he was talking about, but this was just a standard disability protection policy. But it had a special provision called an own occupation provision that protected just my hearing.
Tom Laune:And in the music industry towards the end of my career, I did lose hearing in one ear and was not able to keep going. So I was like, well, I have this disability policy I bought, like, twenty years earlier. I'm gonna see if it'll work. And lo and behold, it actually paid off and paid me tax free income. I think it was for five years, and it was a very generous amount because I was making a really good income in music.
Tom Laune:And so I could pretty much do anything new that I wanted to try to do. So I started researching, okay. If I didn't have this particular thing in place, which has nothing, by the way, to do with Infinite Banking Right. If I didn't have this disability policy in place, I wouldn't be able to do anything right now because I don't have the educational background to do anything but recording engineering. And so I went to school and really tried to learn everything I could about the financial services industry.
Tom Laune:And I ended up getting well, right now, I I have at least four financial designations. I just finished my retirement income planning specialist designation. But the the reason I did that, Chris, is because I wanted to help other people not get in the same lurch that I was in. And during that process, I found some unusual strategies that ended up I was really, really attracted to. And one of them was this concept of rather than saving money in a traditional bank, you're saving money in a life insurance policy.
Tom Laune:And it absolutely intrigued me, and I was like, okay. I've gotta learn more about this. So I ended up going to a conference in Birmingham, Alabama with Nelson Nash and a Austrian economist named Robert Murphy. And it was just so eye opening, Chris. I can't even tell you because I'd never heard anything like this.
Tom Laune:And let me just say, I've been through all the traditional financial planning that is out there, all the classes that you can take in taxes and in in insurance and everything, and they don't really touch on this concept. So it's pretty lesser known, I would say, just in the general public, although it's getting more and more popular. But the reality is is that back in 2013, which is when I discovered it, nobody had ever heard of it, really. I mean, it was just pretty much a a fairly new concept. So I ended up getting what's called an authorized infinite banking practitioner.
Tom Laune:I went through this whole program, and it was the very first class that they offered to do this. So I've been an authorized infinite banking practitioner literally as long as anybody on planet earth since the whole thing started. And I continued on with my education, but I'm telling you, there's nothing that works quite like infinite banking. It just it is very unique in the financial world, and it has a lot of advantages that most people don't even aren't even aware that exists. So I know you know what it is, but, that's kinda how I got into it.
Chris Picciurro:No. Absolutely. And there are a lot of tax advantages. We talk about, tax agencies are are are are involuntary business partner, one of the three laws of teaching tax flow. And Yep.
Chris Picciurro:That the the power you know, we do know our our country's in debt, and and we do there's a sentiment, in the long run that tax rates are gonna go up. So to be able to, you know, to be able to grow assets in a tax tax advantaged way and then have tax, you know, liquidity available, meaning cash available to you in a tax free way, is very powerful. So kind of piggybacking on the infinite banking concept, can you give us an idea of what that even is? Because a lot of, you know, a lot of listeners, let's quite frankly, have have thought about term life insurance. A lot of them maybe have life insurance with their employer, and and what we don't realize is that if your employment terminates for whatever reason, that then that policy is gone.
Chris Picciurro:And and this is and a lot of people think that these these concepts are only for people that are that are older. Now, luckily, I'm gonna I'm gonna take share a little secret that that Tom you know, in in working with Tom, John's gonna razz me for this, but when we moved to Nashville, like, nine years ago, I started I I've always kinda I'm not in my own life, but I've enjoyed running, and I thought, alright. I'm gonna run the Nashville Half Marathon, and I've done it a few times. But the one time specifically, I was, like, bound and determined to get my personal best time, and I was able to do that. Still, I'm a I'm a turtle compared to most of these runners.
Chris Picciurro:But I realized at that time, man, I am, like, in pretty good shape, and this is, gosh, probably quite a few years ago. But this is a great time for me to reevaluate my entire insurance because I know I'm gonna go through a a very I mean, you know, sometimes people will say, well, gosh. I don't wanna have to get a physical. Let me tell you something. I went through this process.
Chris Picciurro:Someone came into my house for fifteen minutes, and that was my physical exam. You know? And and I got approved as a for for a very good rate, and that really set my wife and I up, you know, for some for some some advantages down the road. So the point is a lot of people listening you kinda ramble down there. A lot of people listening might be thinking, life insurance, I don't need that.
Chris Picciurro:I'm young. I'm healthy. That's when you do really need to consider doing this. So, yeah, can you tell me a little bit about what the difference is with specifically infinite banking and what, you know, what a lot of our mutual clients utilize versus a term life insurance from an an employer?
Tom Laune:Absolutely. So, well, from an employer, that's actually what would be considered group term coverage. And, usually, they max that out at about two times your income. So if you're making a hundred thousand dollars a year, they usually give you, like, $200,000 a year or so in term coverage from your employer. One of the big disadvantages of that is that it's not portable.
Tom Laune:There's no portability to it, which means if you leave your work, then you cannot take that term coverage with you. Right? It just goes it stays with the employer. So it's not that advantageous because the chance of something happening to you while you're working with that specific company is very, very low. So one of the unique things about term insurance is it has a very low cost to it, which is good, and a high coverage amount if you're getting your own personal term insurance.
Tom Laune:But the negative is is the chances of it actually paying off are around 1%. Right? There's about a 1% chance that term insurance is actually going to to pay off. So in other words, if you were paying a thousand dollars a year for $3,000,000 of term coverage and that was for ten years, the chances of anything happening to you in that ten year window are extraordinarily small. And then when that ten year window's up, the price per year jumps astronomically.
Tom Laune:Like, it might jump from a thousand dollars to $35,000 the next year, and the next year, it might jump another 10,000. So it just gets to be insanely expensive, and nobody keeps it after that term of years has run up. So I'm not saying there's anything wrong with term insurance. In fact, I have a strategy called the Bulletproof Wealth strategy, Chris, and I actually utilize a special type of term insurance called convertible term insurance a lot. And what that is, it's term insurance that you lock in your health with, but then you can switch it over to an infinite banking style cash accumulation policy at any time during that specific term of years that you're buying it for.
Tom Laune:So it locks in your health and gives you the ability to switch to a permanent coverage later. That's powerful. Works yeah. It works amazingly amazingly well. And the thing is term insurance is simply there's no cash that is accumulated in it at all.
Tom Laune:It's like renting a condo on the beach. At the end of your stay, the condo's somebody else's, and you go away, but you had use of that condo while you were there at the beach, which there's nothing wrong with that because you had a good time. Hey. It's a fun beach vacation, but you're not building any wealth doing that. Right?
Tom Laune:It's just pure a pure expense. Does that does that kinda help?
Chris Picciurro:Yeah. And and if you think about it, you know, why do banks allow you to do a five year, seven year ARM? Right? They're they're hedging the risk completely. So if you get an ARM meaning adjustable rate mortgage.
Chris Picciurro:So if you get a mortgage, it's with a five or seven year ARM, after that time period, you either have to refinance with the bank or the rate adjusts upwards most likely. So think about this. When the concept is be your own bank, lock in your health, lock in that now, and then you can convert the term, like I said, to permanent or whole life insurance in the future. So no. That's that's that's really neat.
Chris Picciurro:So so when we talk about infinite banking, it it is one of the first steps, obviously, creating a you know, having a whole life insurance policy?
Tom Laune:So yeah. And it's not just any whole life insurance policy. So there again, whole life insurance is built on a spectrum from the maximum amount of money you can put in for the least amount of life insurance is designed to accumulate cash, and that's what we do. And then there's whole life insurance where it's the least amount of money you can put in for the most amount of death benefit, and that is just designed for permanent coverage to have a legacy that you're gonna leave no matter what. And so infinite banking, it even goes deeper than just whole life insurance.
Tom Laune:It's about specially designed whole life insurance. And I do three primary designs, but I I won't get into those right now because I I feel like it might be a little beyond the scope for this podcast. But the the reality, Chris, is that it works very similar to a home equity line of credit. And I find that most people out there understand the concept of what a home equity line of credit is. So let's just say this.
Tom Laune:If you had a house that was worth $500,000, but you only owed 200,000 on it, you would have $300,000 of equity. So you could take that equity and tap into it and get a line of credit and borrow against the value of your house. Okay? That's what a home equity line of credit does, And you would be paying the bank interest for the use of their money, and then you would be going out and doing whatever you wanted with that capital. And the the deal with infinite banking is it's the same thing, same concept as a home equity line of credit, but you're you're now building equity inside of a specially designed life insurance policy that you can then collateralize that equity, borrow against it, and then go out and do something with it, like buy a a house or fix and flip, or I have all different kinds of people that do this for small businesses or any number of things.
Tom Laune:But the key to this is that because it's a mutually owned company, you are a part owner, and you get dividends every year that causes compounding growth inside of the policy. And you don't get that if you're just borrowing from a home equity line of credit. There's you know, you don't own that bank that is getting giving you the home equity line of credit, but you do have a part ownership or a mutual ownership in the insurance policy, and that's why you get dividends. So there's a couple of other differences between a home equity line of credit and this kind of cash. This really, it's a cash value line of credit is what it is, that is that with a home equity line of credit, it does not automatically go up every year.
Tom Laune:In other words, if you have a $200,000 home equity line of credit, it's not gonna change unless you go get another appraisal on your house. You go to the bank and say, may I please have a larger home equity line of credit? They do all these credit checks and financial underwriting on you, and then they decide whether or not you get approved for it. With a life insurance line of credit, every single year, it goes up and increases. So you have access to more capital every year, and it works amazingly well because the becoming your own bank part of it is that you don't have to ask permission for that line of credit to go up.
Tom Laune:You don't have to ask permission for a loan. You just have that as a guaranteed privilege. And the other thing is is the rates are a lot more attractive. Like, right now, the main company I work with, the rate is 5.3, and it's obviously lower than a traditional home equity line of credit right now by probably two, two and a half points. So you got a lower rate because the collateral is more secure.
Chris Picciurro:Is it?
Tom Laune:And you have guaranteed growth in the policy. And then if something happens to you, let's just say you had a $2,000,000 life insurance policy and you had an outstanding loan of $200,000, what's gonna happen, Chris, is that the death benefit will pay that loan off, and your beneficiary would end up with 1,800,000.0. So that's why this is a great collateral, and that's why everybody, you know, in the financial world loves cash value of whole life as collateral because it's incredibly secure. The worst case scenario is that you pass away, and then all of a sudden, millions of dollars come, you know, into being that weren't there before, and that pays off any outstanding loan. Does that
Ad Read:make sense?
Chris Picciurro:Yeah. From a tax perspective, I want people to think about that, one, worst case scenario, you pass away. Your your family ends up with a couple million dollars or more, you know, depending on your situation. Yep. Unless it's a unless we're talking you know, unless you have a taxable state, which is pretty rare, that's all tax free money, by the way.
Chris Picciurro:That's all tax free.
Tom Laune:Yes.
Chris Picciurro:The and and I want you just if you're listening, thinking about if you you know, we we talk about HELOC. Right? And the HELOC and and but, you know, if if the mortgage if the value of your home decreases, your loan to value could decrease. With with life insurance, you basically go through underwriting one time. It doesn't matter what happens to you after that, and it can't they can't come back and say, you know what?
Chris Picciurro:No. You're not as healthy as you used to be. You don't make as much money as you used to make, so we're gonna decrease your value. So, again, kinda the cons of the the concept is your take your take becoming your own bank, and, you know, and this works really well, you know, for for a lot of people, but especially, like, real estate investors and entrepreneurs. I've been in business twenty two and a half years, and and every time I go and get a mortgage, I've never really had a problem with it, but there's a lot of anxiety.
Chris Picciurro:Right? Because there's just as you know, Tom, there's a lot more red tape we have to go through as entrepreneurs. So you mentioned that so I wanna touch on something that that cash accumulates in this life insurance policy, and and people are paid dividends. Is it my my understanding that those dividends are tax free as long while they stay in the policy?
Tom Laune:Yeah. The the internal buildup or the cash accumulation in the policy is tax advantaged. And and the why I say advantaged and not free is because eventually, Chris, in all of these policies, there's going to be a a greater amount of capital or cash inside the policy than your basis. And then your basis is just how much money you put into it. Right?
Tom Laune:So if you surrendered it and you had a million dollars of basis and $2,000,000 of cash value, then there would be a capital gain of a million dollars. But I get around that completely because this also provides a tax free retirement income stream. And so in retirement, the way it works from a taxation perspective is that life insurance is based on first in, first out taxation. So we can withdraw the basis or the money we put into that in premium dollars out first in retirement. And then once we have no money in it anymore from a basis perspective and it's all capital gains, then we take loans against it for the rest of retirement, and it builds up this enormous loan balance, usually in the millions of dollars.
Tom Laune:And then rather than paying that loan off, eventually, people pass away, and the life insurance pays off the loan tax free, and the balance of the loan goes to the beneficiary. Wow. So that's how it's provided a tax free retirement income and a tax advantaged accumulation.
Chris Picciurro:And no. That's very important. And then let's talk about the loan part for a minute. You know? Yeah.
Chris Picciurro:Let's assume you've accumulated a cash value, and you Yep. You take a distribution as a loan. Now that's not a taxable event. You do pay a 5.3% interest, which is less than most mortgage HELOCs and and that sort of stuff. But when you pay your when you pay that line loan back, you're paying yourself interest, I believe.
Chris Picciurro:Are you you're you're paying the five
Tom Laune:point So I'll explain this how it works. This is a little bit complicated and one of the things that people get confused about about this. So the interest is paid to the insurance company. The insurance company takes that, and that is profit to them, and they return their profit back to you in the form of a dividend. So it's not one to one, though.
Tom Laune:It's not I paid 5,000 of dollars of interest, and now I get a $5,000 dividend. It doesn't work like that. It's I pay $5,000 of interest that goes into the general account. They look at their mortality and expense charges, and then they determine how much dividend they're gonna pay, and they return it back to the policyholder. So it's very much you're not paying interest to yourself.
Tom Laune:Okay? That's one of the things that people get confused about with this. You're paying interest to the insurance company, but you are still getting a dividend even when you have a loan outstanding. And kind of to to bring this back to the HELOC analogy, your house, if you had a HELOC of $200,000 and a $500,000 house, and you took that $200,000 and went and bought a rental property with it, and then your house went up in value, you're still getting the appreciation on the house. Right?
Tom Laune:And you have the rental property. But with a house, as we saw from 02/1989, they can go down in value too, believe it or not. Right? Most people now don't think that's possible, but we all know that houses are not guaranteed to go up in value. But with life insurance, like you said, Chris, it is guaranteed to go up in value.
Tom Laune:It never can go down, which means it's more stable collateral with less risk, and that's why they can charge a lower interest rate. You're never gonna get backwards on it.
Chris Picciurro:And what are you finding your your clients are utilizing? You know, I mean, you don't have to take the loan. Right? You could just let it sit in there and get paid tax free dividends, which I I know you can't say what the dividend amount is because it it just it fluctuates. I will say mine's, you know, at about six, six and a half percent because I'll speak personally.
Chris Picciurro:Yeah. You the money could just sit in there dividend. But for the people that take advantage of the loan provision, which is a which is not considered taxable income, what are what are your what are your clients typically using those proceeds for in general?
Tom Laune:That's a great question. So either they use it for some okay. I'll just give you a broad category. Something they can control. Okay?
Tom Laune:So I personally don't recommend taking loans from your life insurance policy and, for example, buying stocks that you have no idea if they're gonna crash tomorrow or not. Right? It's there's too much risk involved in that. But if you have a small business that you know you have a product you can mark up and you need to buy inventory with it, or I have just a wide variety of things where you are in somewhat control over it, or even if you were gonna go buy a rental house where you knew the the area and you felt really good about the the loan to value and how much you were gonna get a good deal for, and you could fix it up, and you might be buying a distressed asset. Those things you are in more control over, and that is what most of my clients use their policies for.
Tom Laune:It's just something they have a degree of control over, and and it's not wild speculation. And definitely not it's not a great idea to take loans for depreciating assets. Like, for example, I'm gonna take a $40,000 loan. I'm gonna take my whole family and extended family to Hawaii for two weeks. Because at the at the end of that time, you got nothing.
Tom Laune:You had the fun, but now you owe the 40,000 back. So, Chris, let me touch on this real quick. There's a concept called interest rate arbitrage, and what that means is that you're trying to get in your investment that you take a loan from your policy for a higher return than you're paying in interest. So if you could get a 10.6% return and you were paying the insurance company 5.3%, your actual effective rate of return on that deal is a % because you're doing what's called interest rate arbitrage. And I'm not gonna go way into the weeds on this, but people generally miss this point.
Tom Laune:Right? This is how banks make money. Banks do not make money by earning a quarter of a percent. Okay? That's what people think.
Tom Laune:Oh, I I'm you know, they're paying me 5%, and I'm loaning money at five and a quarter percent. I must be they must be only making a quarter percent. No. They're making the spread because they're not lending out their own money. They're lending out their depositors' money.
Tom Laune:Okay? Banks, in fact, buy a ton of whole life insurance, and they utilize whole life insurance as one of their key assets. It's called BOLI or bank owned life insurance. So I teach people about how they can utilize interest rate arbitrage to radically increase their returns. Does that make sense?
Tom Laune:Absolutely.
Chris Picciurro:And to kind of, you know, wrap that up and just say, I'm sure if you're listening to this still, which you should be. And if you're not listening to it, you didn't make hear me say that you should be. But, you know, when at what point when when are the top three or four times that someone listening to this should was it a good idea to really look at this concept and and consider it?
Tom Laune:That is an awesome question. So number one, this is something you have to be aware of, is that you have to have a reasonable you don't have to be in perfect health, Chris, but you have to be in reasonable health for this to make sense. Right? You know, you can't have just had a major health incident like cancer or something like that in the last couple of years. So you were very smart to while you knew you were in good health prepping for that marathon to go ahead and get underwritten.
Tom Laune:It was great. Right now, we're seeing a lot of clients because of the new technologies out there. They're able to do electronic underwriting, and you don't even have to have a medical exam. And that could go up to $7,500,000 of life insurance with no medical exam. In fact, that just happened last week.
Tom Laune:I had a husband and a wife both get $7,500,000, no medical exam. So it does happen, and it's really cool. So you may not even have to have that. So you wanna have reasonable health, number one. And number two, you have to be somewhat entrepreneurially minded.
Tom Laune:Meaning, like, you can do this and just let the money accumulate the cash accumulate in a policy and never do anything with it. But if you wanna maximize this strategy, you really wanna have some sort of either small business or entrepreneurial in the inclination that would allow you to want to to leverage it for something that you want to have happen in your life from an investment perspective. Like, I don't use the I word of investment because nothing I do carries a lot of risk with it at all. It's very, very, very, very low risk. I think it's even lower risk than putting money in a bank.
Tom Laune:But when you take a loan, whatever you put that money into is the investment. Right? It's either a small business or real estate or some you know, one of the things my clients do a lot is they do private lending. So if they can lend their money out, and I've done this in the past too, at 15% return and pay 5.3%, then you're getting almost, you know, 200% rate of return on your money. So it's a very good thing for that.
Tom Laune:So just to wrap this up, there's three things that this thing accomplishes. It guarantees cash value growth. It serves as collateral for other investments, and it gives you a legacy for your family tax free. So it accomplishes three things at once, and that's an incredibly powerful use of, you know, putting your dollars to work at more than one place at a time.
Chris Picciurro:Absolutely. And and, you know, you you know, so so and if someone's has meets those criteria and you're sitting, you know, have money maybe in a bank savings account, money market earning a very small amount of interest also, by the way, that's fully taxable versus you know, you might as well be tax efficient. So Yep. Man, I really appreciate it, and I I've learned a lot even though I've been doing this.
Tom Laune:That's great.
Chris Picciurro:Chris, I've
John Tripolsky:been sitting here basically in silence the whole time that Tom, you explained that really, really well and kinda you know, you mentioned the three things, so I kinda think of it, you know, as the trifecta. Yes. Which is basically the you know, I love that term trifecta because it's like three wins right on the scoreboard all in one time.
Chris Picciurro:But Mhmm.
John Tripolsky:The way you describe that, but then also just the process on how it all works. You did a great job explaining that. Because, Chris, you know, to your your question you had asked, I honestly thought that was the case. Like, you're paying yourself interest. But then the more you think about it, you're like, well, how would that even work?
John Tripolsky:Like, how do how do how does this even exist? Right? You're you're not adding any fuel to the the operational tank, if you will, for somebody to manage this thing because they're not making any money.
Chris Picciurro:Right.
John Tripolsky:You do a great job. And, yeah, if if anybody's interested in this, I mean, we'll make it pretty easy for you. We'll actually drop a, a link right in the show notes, and you can go directly to the teaching tax flow hub. So what that is is you'll see it when you go on it. It'll have a a list of things you may be interested in.
John Tripolsky:Click on them, and we're happy to make introductions for you. So it saves you the the trouble of having to trust, the Google, as my grandmother would have said. You don't have to go on search for it. We we actually have somebody like Tom. I know I know you're part of that ecosystem with us there, and, yeah, we make it pretty easy.
John Tripolsky:So anybody that's in the audience listening or watching this will, again, put that link in these show notes to the Teaching Tax Flow hub, and check it out. Let us know what you think, and let us know what we can do to to help you. And, you know, Tom, we'll have to have you back on again here after a while and kinda maybe do a do a two point o, a recap, or dive a little deeper into some of these concepts as well. Absolutely. And we'll let Chris come back too, I guess.
Chris Picciurro:So Thank you.
John Tripolsky:Yes. I'm coughing over here. It's it's like my joke. I make myself laugh. But, yeah, everybody definitely check out the teaching tax flow hub, and we'll see everybody back here again on the podcast next week.
John Tripolsky:Different time roughly, completely different topic. Have a great week, everybody.
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