Ep. 90 | The History of Taxes
Download MP3Welcome to the Teaching Tax Flow podcast where the goal is to empower and educate you to legally and ethically minimize taxes paid over your lifetime.
John Tripolsky:Hey there, taxpayers. Welcome back to the podcast, episode 90 today. That's right. We're only 10 away from episode 100. We got a little special surprise for you come 102.
John Tripolsky:Not even gonna talk about that though, but today we're gonna dive into the history of US taxes. Taxes. So very fitting given the holiday. But before we do that, let's take a brief moment as always and thank our episode sponsor.
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John Tripolsky:Hey, everyone. Welcome back to the podcast as mentioned here in the intro. Obviously, you've heard what we're gonna talk about today, and we are gonna talk about history, just a hair, and the purpose of US taxes. So we're not gonna be talking about what the Aussies are paying, the Canadians necessarily, what they're doing over this you know, over seas across the pond. Although we might bring them up a little bit.
John Tripolsky:Got a fun little fact regarding those guys and gals. But talking history, Welcome back to the show, Chris Pacquero, the guy I've known for a the 2 and a half decades ish. But how's it going, man? You ready for this 1? Well, yeah.
Chris Picciurro:Isn't a score 20 years? Oh, good. 4 score 20 yeah. I thought a score was 20 years. Maybe we could we could check that.
John Tripolsky:That's a good question. Yeah. Let's look let's verify this, actually. This is you know, as funny as it is because we're gonna talk about history. Right?
John Tripolsky:And I can't say that I am a history buff by any stretch of the imagination, but I am always interested in it because, you know, it kinda makes me feel kinda makes me feel smarter in some conversations when you can drop these nuggets. Right? Like, totally unrelated. But if anybody wants to really amaze people at the dinner table, look up how to actually squeeze a ketchup bottle. Completely different than you think it may be.
John Tripolsky:It's a well, I
Chris Picciurro:know that the ketchup bottle back in the back in the day when they're glass, you'd have to tap the 57 on the Heinz 57 and get the ketchup out. I used to work at a restaurant as a busboy and dishwasher, and once in a while, the ketchup would not come out of the bottle.
John Tripolsky:Oh, I'm gonna I'm gonna bust that out 1 day. Next time we get together, I'm just gonna grab a knife, start pounding the bottom of that thing. Either that or people are gonna think we're just you know, we think we're at a wedding or something. I don't know. A little clink clink noise.
John Tripolsky:But
Chris Picciurro:Well, when you think about hot dogs, you know, it's like it's 4th July week here, independence day. I think about there's always the debate of what goes on a hot dog. I mean, to me, it's ketchup and mustard. I could go if I'm at a baseball game, it's mustard only. But a hot dog with ketchup only is kinda,
John Tripolsky:you know? Yeah. It's kinda weird. It's half American. It's half American.
John Tripolsky:Speaking of, score.
Chris Picciurro:It is 20 years, John. So we've known each other for 1 score. Hey. It's pretty Congratulations.
John Tripolsky:Yeah. 111.25 score. I'm gonna update my LinkedIn and put that on there. But let so Yeah. So that's free.
John Tripolsky:And and this is funny. So everybody that's listening to this and you've listened to a number of our episodes. Right? We we tend to take it kinda serious, but we have a good time doing these podcasts. Right?
John Tripolsky:So this 1, I had to kinda twist Curo's arm here a little to do. Because as I always say, and I know I know it annoys the crap out of him sometimes, let's say, you know, let's do it. Let's figure it out as we go. So you it's very, very hard to say that to a numbers guy, by the way. If anybody knows their CPA, some of them are very, very we won't say straight laced, but they are very cut and dry.
John Tripolsky:Chris is not. I mean, he's he's very modern, we'll say. You're not you're not your normal guy, but some of these, he's like, nope. It's it's gonna be it's gonna be difficult, but I don't give a crap. I do the editing.
John Tripolsky:So there
Chris Picciurro:you go. Exactly. Well, so history so we figured it's Independence Day. Let's talk a little bit about the history of taxes. And some of the sometimes we forget 1 of the 3 laws of teaching tax flow.
Chris Picciurro:We have to understand that tax agencies are your involuntary business partner, which means that a portion of your income gets paid to your business partner. The Internal Revenue Service on the federal side could be a state. It could be a local city, county, and tax laws are written to encourage or discourage certain behavior. We know that certain, industries, certain types of income are more tax advantaged. So we're gonna kinda dive into that because the US tax system is very complicated.
Chris Picciurro:Many people from foreign countries that look at our tax system just shake their head and say, what in God's green earth are you guys doing over there?
John Tripolsky:And these But Oh, no.
Chris Picciurro:Go ahead. We're gonna dive into it. We're gonna dive into it. We're gonna talk a little bit about the history of of tax here. Then we're gonna bring in more modern, over the last score, for instance, and then look at the environment we are in right now.
Chris Picciurro:We're truly at a crossroads. We are under the in the in the tail end of the last third of the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act of 2017. And we have a big election coming up in the United States, a presidential election, which as we know, congress and senate trickle down from that. And this election is a huge pivot point in our tax structure. So we're gonna talk about that.
Chris Picciurro:We're also gonna do some special things in the fall where we're gonna dive into each presidential candidate's tax plan. And dive but that's the future. We're gonna talk about history today.
John Tripolsky:Yeah. See, we're we're we're looking forward talking back, I guess, today. Right? So and and kinda looking at you know, let let's start. We won't go too far back.
John Tripolsky:Because obviously, again, we're we're focused on US based tax history. I mean, we could go back to the darn Romans if we wanted to. And, you know, if, their taxes probably, you know, you pay with a hand or or something crazy where, you know, you're kicked off a cliff. But looking at the United States of America. Right?
John Tripolsky:And and, Chris, I I believe I'm on this correctly. I do have to admit though, again, not being a total history buff, I cannot give citations on all of these facts because they were found online, and some of them probably aren't the most credible considering some of the stuff that I looked up on Google and dates, things were spelled wrong. So anytime there's a spelling error, it completely shoots the credibility out the window for me. But if I remember right too, this 1 I'm not looking up in front of me, but I believe federal taxes were actually created by or put in place or call promoted by Abe Lincoln back in the day. And and if I remember right, there was really to help fund the civil war, if I'm not mistaken.
John Tripolsky:So that was kind of the first you know, we're not talking tea party tax here. We're talking US put in place and implemented tax. Is is that correct?
Chris Picciurro:Right. So the US constitution in when it was ratified in 17/89 granted Congress the power to levy taxes. So Congress is, remember that Congress is the the the law they are the lawmakers and part of that power is to write tax law. It's not the president, it's not the judicial branch, it is Congress. So Congress has given the power to levy taxes, and they levy all sorts of taxes: payroll, income, tariffs, excise, estate, etcetera, etcetera.
Chris Picciurro:So that power was given in 17/89, but it really wasn't used until the civil war. So to finance the war, there was something called the revenue act of 18/61, and that introduced the 1st federal income tax. John, do you wanna guess what that that tax rate was?
John Tripolsky:Oh, jeez. It was probably up there. I'd imagine. Right? I mean, a lot of notes, it was probably pretty low pretty low back then, all things considered.
Chris Picciurro:It was 3% on your of any of your income over $800. So the standard deduction was $800, a flat rate of 3%, and that was to fund the war. So that's really where the the federal income tax got started, and then it obviously grew from there. In in 1913, part of the 16th amendment was the revenue act of 19 13, and this was a big pivot point. We went from a flat rate of 3% to a graduated income tax system with rates from 1% to 7%.
Chris Picciurro:And guess what? We are still in a graduated income tax system. What that means is that the higher your taxable income is, the higher rate of tax you pay on that income. Now listen to this 1, Johnny t. When World War 1 was going on, the United States needed to raise significant amount of money.
Chris Picciurro:So if you're listening to this and you're upset about your tax rate, the tax top tax rate in 1918 was 77%.
John Tripolsky:Holy moly. So we're doing alright.
Chris Picciurro:That is huge. Oh, we are and I've talked about this quite a bit. Right now, if you are listening to this, under the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act of 2017, taxes are on sale. This is the time to potentially, if you have a taxable event that's looming over the next 5 to 10 years, to consider, as long as you have the cash to pay the tax, accelerating that event. Obviously, you should work with a tax planning professional and a tax strategist to make sure that makes sense for you, but taxes are on sale right now.
Chris Picciurro:So, obviously, we are not in a about a 100 years ago, we were in a 77% tax rate environment. Tax reform occurred and taxes ultimately went down. There's a huge pivot point again under the Tax Reform Act of 1986. Yes, John, I had a hairdo at that point. I was in 5th grade.
Chris Picciurro:And under president Reagan, a lot of things changed. Our depreciation schedules changed. Our passive activity loss, passive activity rules changed, which pertains to real estate. But the top individual tax rate in 1986 was 50%, and that top rate went from 50% to 28%. Oh, pretty significant.
Chris Picciurro:So very significant. We're not and I know that we're the most of the listeners are pretty are probably too young for this. And quite frankly, I don't remember tons of this growing up, but I remember there's that that term Reaganomics, which in trickle down economy, which basically the theory was that Ronald Reagan felt was that, hey, reduce the taxes as much as possible. They got reduced by almost 50% because if people have more money, they will actually spend money and put it back into the economy, and they will use it in a wiser fashion than the government. So the consumption by the consumer will ultimately create a more fair economic environment, And in general, people will consume more if they have more in their pocket.
John Tripolsky:And some of the I have tons of tons of little fun facts. You know, we could we could pick at certain states a little bit. But I think something that's super relatable to everybody too. And, you know, Chris, back to our, our kind of glowing, highlight that we always make a teaching tax law about, you know, tax laws are written to encourage and discourage certain behavior. We can't forget about, mister Capone from Chicago.
John Tripolsky:Right? Mister mister Chicago pizza man is, you know, some people call him. But, again, we'll make fun of certain cities. Being from Michigan, it's very easy to poke fun at other states that surround us. But, I mean, Capone I mean, again, I didn't know the guy, but, you know, he, he knocked a handful of people, off the census, shall we say, but did not go to jail for that.
John Tripolsky:The IRS is actually who took him down. I think they sent him to prison for, you know, 11 or 12 or 15 years or something out in California, for tax evasion. Right? So that's probably the best Exactly. Most popular example of the power of the IRS in SummerGuard.
John Tripolsky:Right?
Chris Picciurro:Absolutely. That's that's pretty that's a famous fact, and, and it's correct. So we get into the 21st century, right, and again, there's just theoretical differences on how we should tax, how America should tax tax tax its taxpayers. That is a That's
John Tripolsky:a tongue twister.
Chris Picciurro:Correct. So as I got into this business in, you know, 2, 000, 2, 007, 2, 008, we were under what are called the Bush tax cuts, where there were there was a Growth Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2, 003. Now that lowered tax rates. That reduced capital gains, increased child tax credits, and, ultimately, was, again, another lower tax environment. Then when president Obama was elected, they he changed some things up as well.
Chris Picciurro:And some of the Bush Air tax cuts were made permanent, but then there are also some some changes to the what we call the ACA, Affordable Care Act, that mandated, people have a certain type of health insurance and penalize people significantly based on your income in companies, also, if they had a certain amount of employees for not being ACA compliant. Now, 2017 comes along, Donald Trump wins election, he signs the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, TCJA, That's what we are in right now, and it really overhauled the tax code. What it was try what this act was intended to do was to simplify things. And some say it did simplify things, some say it didn't. But, personally, I think it simplified personal taxes and I think a complicated business tax.
Chris Picciurro:The corporate tax rates, a lot of people don't understand that corporations, c corporations, pay a tax on their net income. And that after they pay their tax, so let's say General Motors or Tesla, if it has net income, it has to pay a tax on that and then from the remaining money, it can pay dividends to its tax to its owners, to its shareholders. Well, that corporate tax rate was 35% before Tax Cuts and Jobs Act. Tax Cuts and Jobs Act reduced that corporate tax rate down to 21% because they wanted it to more mirror a personal tax rate. It also increased the standard deduction, but it yet it limited many deductions that that people used to take.
Chris Picciurro:So for instance, unreimbursed employee business expenses, moving expenses, those sort of things were taken off the table and it limited your SALT tax deduction, state and local income tax deduction. So tax rates went down significantly, and that's the era we are now. We also have something called the qualified business income deduction, or QBI. That's also known as section 199a. So businesses are well, actually, individuals can now obtain up to a 20% of net income deduction.
Chris Picciurro:There are phase outs. There are rules based on their business income. Finally, John, then we had COVID hit. Right? The pandemic hit in 2020.
Chris Picciurro:President or Donald Trump was not the president anymore. Joe Biden was a who is our current president is was a president, and he signed the American Rescue Plan Act, created the, you know, the, the employer retention tax credit, which created the economic impact payments to people and to try to keep our economy going. And and now we're here now. So, ultimately, like I said, the theme is, if you're listening, taxes are currently on sale. What is important is to make sure you understand what the laws are currently so the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act sunsets in 2026.
Chris Picciurro:Depending on the election results, it could get extended, it could be made permanent, or it could go away when it's expected to go away. It would be tough to probably repeal it. So that's where you have to really look at your situation and determine how you're going to tax plan.
John Tripolsky:And we always talk about tax planning. Right? It's it's something that a lot of people don't know what it is until they realize that they don't know it. And then, I mean, we're talking about taxes being on sale. Right?
John Tripolsky:I think, again, disclaimer, I don't know how true a 100% of these are, but if you think your your job is, you know, easier now than it was back in the day or anybody does, put your hands in, in, we'll call, accountant because who knows how long the CPA, call it accreditation license title, has been given. But I'm seeing here, right, that looking all the way back to 1913. Okay? So we're going back a 100 plus years. I I won't even say Chris had hair back then.
John Tripolsky:Chris wasn't around back then, obviously. But so I see here the US tax code, right, was 400 pages long in 1913. That's 400 pages. That's longer than most books I've ever read. I mean, maybe some textbooks in college.
John Tripolsky:Well, to be honest, I didn't read those either. No. You didn't. What? Come on.
John Tripolsky:I never read those things. I too bad AI is not around or wasn't around when I'm when I was there. Although, let's say that, you know, unrelated too. I kinda am a little bit jealous when some students were around maybe a year ago, year and a half ago when AI started to get into it before all the professors and everybody knew what it was. You just look like a genius.
John Tripolsky:But back to 19 13, 400 pages in the US federal tax code. Basically, the pub is I think we refer to it as now. I'll pause for a second, and everybody guess how many pages are in in today's. Right? Even looking back at 2010, I think, is what it references.
John Tripolsky:400 in 1913, 70, 000 now. Yeah. I mean, you That's crazy.
Chris Picciurro:And it's not easy reading. It's just not easy reading. So let's think about this when we're talking about how to plan for taxes. And as as I've said a 1000000 times on this episode already, taxes are on sale. So I wanna just talk through as we wrap it up what our tax rates are looking like today versus where they were at 6 years ago, pre TCGA, A couple of things I wanna mention.
Chris Picciurro:Understand that different types of income are taxed at different rates. Some income is taxed on your net income, rental income business, some is taxed on your gross income, interest income, dividends, W-two wages. So you definitely wanna be taxed at net income. But when we talked about federal tax rates let's talk about the corporate tax rates first. I mentioned that the maximum corporate tax rate was 35% before Tax Cuts and Jobs Act.
Chris Picciurro:That it started you know, that corporate tax rate starts at 15%, but it got in it as as high as 35. Now it's a flat 21%. Someone that was a married couple with a adjusted or taxable income of $190, 000 would have been in the 28% marginal tax bracket. Now they're in the 22% marginal tax bracket. A married couple with $80, 000 of taxable income would have been in this 25% tax brack tax bracket, and now they're in the 12%.
Chris Picciurro:So my point is, really dive in. If you're listening to this, you have a personal invitation to jump into teaching tax for our educational library, which is complimentary, and learn about what how to calculate your marginal tax rate and figure out what strategies you should implement to legally and ethically reduce the tax you're paying in your lifetime. And once you start getting that knowledge, then we can start talking about, well, bonus depreciation and research and development credits and the tax advantage of owning real estate and the section 121 exclusion and the Augusta rule. All those are really cool tools that you could put in your tool belt, but you first have to understand that that this is you know, that these laws are written to encourage incur discourage certain behavior. Some of that behavior is financial, It's quite frankly, some of it is social.
John Tripolsky:And then, Chris, too, as as we wrap up here, right, I'll I'll kinda end us with some some more funny facts. We won't even call them fun. We'll call them funny. And they're not federal. These are more state.
John Tripolsky:Right? So if somebody's listened to this, I am not responsible for the milk or water or pop or any beverage coming out of your nose because some of these are kinda ridiculous. Not to mention 1 thing that I see here is that Canadian cereal companies receive a tax break for putting a toy inside the box. Kinda weird, but okay. Oh.
John Tripolsky:Interesting. So there's the Canadian knowledge. So here's a couple things. So here here is 1 federal 1. Okay.
John Tripolsky:In 1987, the IRS began requiring taxpayers to list their dependent's Social Security number on returns. Again, I don't know if that's a 100% correct. But that being the case, it is mentioned that 7, 000, 000 children vanish from tax returns when they required that. So who would've who would've thunk? Right?
John Tripolsky:So it's at least once a year someone asks, maybe, with tongue in cheek, can I deduct my pet? Ultimately, people were putting their pets on
Chris Picciurro:their tax return as a dependent until they started requiring a Social Security number, and that's exactly what happened. 7, 000, 000, 000. They were in the house. It didn't say chose it. It said dependents.
John Tripolsky:Very true. And speaking of things being worded incorrectly. Right? So again, now these are a couple state. Was it I got 4 of them here?
John Tripolsky:I'll I'll breeze it really quick. So Madison Square Garden. Right? The entertainment facility, we'll call it, in New York. Okay?
John Tripolsky:It looks like they were exempt from property taxes since 1942 only because I mean, the term of the agreement looks like it was for 10 years long because it was worded incorrectly. So as long as the Rangers and the Knicks are playing there, they're actually property tax exempt for existence because of miswording of something. So, again, kinda kinda different from, you know, we're not talking US based, but these are US cities and state. Same thing as, you know, Washington. Right?
John Tripolsky:State of Washington, bottled water is taxable. However, if you can convince a doctor to give you a prescription, you can request a sales tax refund. So kinda interesting. New Mexico, you no longer have to pay, state income tax, it looks like, once you turn a 100 years old. So you can be old and cheap at the same time.
John Tripolsky:You'd be good. And then Texas, this 1 was kinda funny. It's kind of a stinky 1. Texas looks like they charge a sales tax on deodorant, but not on antiperspirant because the FDA requires a a drug facts label to be on there. So I don't know if that's, you know, specific to Texas or not, but it sounds legit.
John Tripolsky:And then it looks like here, Pennsylvania charges an an 18% flood tax for every bottle of alcohol sold. The law was originally designed to help rebuild Johnstown after the flood of 1936, but still remains in effect today. So as long as people are paying the tax, you know, why pope to bear? But just reading some of these, I thought were kind of funny. So I know, Chris, thank you for for diving into the history here.
John Tripolsky:We can kinda say, you know, class is no longer in session. Everybody's free to go. Your attendance has been recorded and documented, and we appreciate it. But as always, we'll see everybody back here next week on the Teaching Tax Flow podcast.
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